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Side Hustles For College Students: Ideas From Katie Neal

Katie Neal discussing side hustles for college students These days, side hustles for college students are becoming a norm. Katie Neal, alumna of Goldey-Beacom College, was one of five siblings. In order for her to go to college, she had to support most of the finances herself. On the 29th episode of The Homework Help Show Student Influencers Podcast, learn about Katie’s journey, her side hustles, and how to earn money while studying in college.

A bustling university cafeteria filled with students

Katie’s College Life

Katie Neal studied business administration at Goldey-Beacom College in Delaware. She was also a varsity football player and was on a scholarship. With financial help from her sports and academic scholarship, she was able to pursue her college degree. Katie opened up on the podcast about not doing well in big groups and social settings. That was what prompted her to enter a smaller college instead of pursuing graphic design at a bigger university.

One of her biggest selling points with choosing Goldey-Beacom College was the 98% of their students who found jobs right after graduating. She also acknowledged how big of a decision choosing the right school is when you’re 17 or 18. It might seem hard to make decisions at such a young age, on top of balancing school and a side hustle, but it is definitely possible and can be very rewarding.

A work desk with a coffee mug with the word hustle on top

What Is A Side Hustle?

Pursuing a college degree can be very expensive. For multiple children households, it can be very difficult for parents to send all their children to college. Students also tend to pay off loans after going to college or university which is why side hustles for college students are becoming increasingly popular.

A side hustle is something you do besides school or a main job that allows you to earn some extra money. Since the COVID-19 pandemic, work from home jobs have also been very popular. It’s a great way to save more money on eating out for lunch and spending money on gas or transportation fees. Full-time students are also more likely to balance school with remote jobs.

Because of inflation and price increases of goods and services, a single job or no job at all just won’t cut it. You’ve got to learn how to hustle in this day and age to afford a decent life. According to Arizona State University, if you must have a side hustle in college, you need to be realistic with your time schedules and pick a job close to you.

Five college students discussing different side hustles

Easy Side Hustles For College Students

College students relatively have a little more freedom when it comes to their time compared to high school students. That’s why it’s important to make use of this time wisely. A lot of students have side business ideas or quick side hustles that they are considering and it’s a great way to utilize your extra time.

If you’re looking for side hustles for college students, here’s a list of some potential jons you can try.

1. Start a part-time photography business.

2. Become a babysitter.

3. House-sit for friends and family.

4. Get paid for your talents by using Upwork and other freelancing platforms.

5. Advertise using your car by working with companies who place photo ads on your car.

6. Start a small crafts business on Etsy.

7. Write papers for classmates and other students in your school.

8. Proofread your classmates’ papers.

9. Offer tutoring services.

10. Sell baked goods.

11. Become a reseller of thrifted items or start selling secondhand goods.

12. Offer transcription services online.

13. Enter delivery services through UberEats and similar applications

14. Give singing, musical instruments, or sports lessons.

15. Become an influencer.

For more ideas about side hustles for college students, check out our previous blog on Finding A Side Hustle At University.

Authentic Influencing

Social media today looks very different than it used to be back when Katie was still in college. While she doesn’t call what she does now “influencing”, she’s definitely making a name for herself on social media. On top of her nine-to-five job, she has also started cultivating a personal brand. What made her quite successful was being her authentic self online.

Katie has always been on the more creative side. She used to like writing stories and drawing and even considered graphic design as a career. She has a lot of other responsibilities outside work and is a mom and wife. However, she always felt like something was missing. Turns out, creating content was her missing outlet.

To become more confident in showing up as your most authentic self online, it’s important that you have great communication skills so that your followers can understand you better. Check out our blog on How To Learn Communication Skills For School and At The Workplace.

Woman planning and organizing her work schedule

How Katie Started Her Side Hustle

Katie’s content creation journey started when she took a fellow influencer’s advice on a product to try. She never imagined she would start promoting products online. She was quite hesitant with all the budding online marketing that is happening on social media. She started telling her friends and co-workers about the said product and they ended up trying it out themselves. Her first real successful influencer moment.

Influencers or brand affiliates usually get a percentage of the sales they are able to make. Influencing has actually become one of the popular side hustles for college students. Katie thought to herself that she was already selling products but not making money off of it so she might as well make it official. There was some initial hesitation, of course. For starters, Katie wasn’t comfortable sharing photos of herself on Instagram specifically. When she first started out, she would think to herself how embarrassing it is to make promotional posts. Later of course, she would just pull the trigger and go ahead and make her posts regardless of what other people would think.

A student’s pov while writing an essay

How Katie Found Creative Ways To Make Money

Online personality, Katie Neal, realized that Instagram has become a powerful tool.. Not everything is picture perfect anymore, although a lot of it still is. There’s now a huge earning potential since it became a marketing tool. Katie learned that people respond better to creators who are authentic and relatable. She says, “If they don’t relate to a part of your life, they’re not going to follow you.”

If you’re also trying to make a name and brand on social media, here are some other things Katie has learned that can help you. This is especially for those looking for side jobs from home. Katie said she wished she had the option to become an online content creator during her college years. So if you’re looking for side hustles for college students, here are some tips to succeed in becoming an influencer.

1. Find your people

When you begin your online journey, some of your friends and family might not be there to support you. The brightside to this though, is you find out some strangers can be more empathetic to you and your personal situation. As you grow a following, you will start to find people who you relate to and relate to you. So don’t be discouraged if you don’t get that initial support from your peers. Have faith that you will find your people.

2. Don’t compare yourself to anyone else

All influencers have their specific niche and target audience. For Katie, she became one of many mom-influencers in the scene. A lot of the time though, she found herself comparing herself to other moms and how their homes looked and how their children dressed. She realized this was unhealthy and whenever she found herself comparing, she would unfollow that creator. For you to succeed in such a unique space such as Instagram, you need to make sure you’re making it your own safe space. You need to understand that not everyone’s lives look the same and that’s okay. As they say, comparison is the thief of joy. You need to be happy with the state of your life, however it looks.

For those looking to find side hustles for college students and want to try their hand at influencing, this tip is really important. If you find yourself comparing yourself to other students who seem to have all the time to balance school and work while looking like they have the most interesting lives online, it can feel discouraging to proceed.

3. Be open and honest

People online have become much more intuitive and can usually tell when creators aren’t being honest. A recent Instagram update even required creators to disclose when their posts are ads or paid partnerships. To succeed in becoming an influencer, you need to be open and honest. Relatability is a defining factor in getting a following. No one is going to want to follow someone who doesn’t even like their own life that they have to resort to lying. If you want to harbor a great relationship with your followers, be willing to open up your life and be honest. You never know who’s going to end up relating to you because of it.

4. Take it easy on yourself

Curating a picture-perfect life isn’t what Instagram is all about. Just like you shouldn’t compare your life with others, you need to be kind to yourself too. The online world is ruthless and you won’t be able to please everyone. But if you take it easy on yourself, you’ll have just the right motivation to keep going.

5. Be okay with people unfollowing you

Not everyone will keep up with your journey and this is something that you can’t take personally. For whatever reason it is, if you people no longer want to support you, be okay with them leaving. Just like Katie unfollows creators she starts comparing herself with, some of your unfollowers will have their reasons for doing so. When you start aligning yourself with your true path, you’re bound to lose supporters along the way who no longer align with you. Just keep it pushing and stay true to yourself.

6. Don’t be afraid to put yourself out there

Any student looking for internet side hustles, blog writing jobs, or any good side hustles for college students will feel a little hesitant to start. It’s even more daunting to start an online presence because not everyone will be comfortable with sharing their lives. Katie had similar sentiments when she was starting out. She never posted pictures of herself and often only shared photos of her children and husband. Once she overcame this fear, it became infinitely easier for her to find success.

If you’re looking for side hustles for college students, influencing can be easy once you get over the fear of putting yourself out there. Being in the public eye is a small price to pay for such a rewarding job. Whether it’s an in-person job or a remote job, don’t be afraid to get out of your comfort zone. Everything that’s rewarding is on the other side of fear.

If you want more tips on how to be sociable, check out our blog How To Learn Communication Skills.

7. Be open to change

Once you become an online personality, a lot of things are bound to change. Being an online creator means being updated with trends in order to stay relevant. You need to be open to change regardless of the industry or college side hustles you’re trying to do.

8. Know that you are different and unique

You might think that in order to make it on social media you need to do what everyone else is doing. It’s quite the opposite actually. Once you embrace what sets you apart and your uniqueness, it might just be your key to success.

9 Stay your course

Success isn’t achieved overnight. No matter which of your side gig ideas you end up pursuing, you’ve got to overcome the initial learning curve before you start reaping the rewards. You won’t go viral instantly on social media and it’ll take a little more time than other jobs before you find your following and before brands start working with you. No matter what, if this is something you are truly passionate about, stay your course and trust the process. Nothing worth having ever comes easy.

10. Be authentic

Katie’s most important tip in becoming a successful influencer is to be authentic. She shares that since she has stopped overthinking her posts and started to be authentically herself, she’s become happier.

Two coworkers collaborating during a meeting

Listen In To Katie Neal’s Full Interview On The Homework Help Show Student Influencers Podcast

Learn more from Katie Neal about how having college side hustles can be beneficial to you and more about how she’s made a successful online influencing career. The 29th episode of The Homework Help Show can be watched on YouTube or you can listen in from your favorite streaming platforms. Find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts , Anchor FM, and more.


Katie [00:00:01] Everyone’s different. Figure out what works for you, because some of the things that other people said to do, like I would try them and it just, it didn’t stick.

Lesley [00:00:11] Hi, everyone, and welcome back to The Homework Help Show Student Influencers podcast. Today I’m with Katie Neal, so welcome. And how are you today?

Katie [00:00:20] I’m good. How are you?

Lesley [00:00:21] Great. To get started, we usually do a couple of get to know you kind of questions. So why don’t we start with where were you born and raised and then where are you located now?

Katie [00:00:32] Born and raised in, well, Landenberg, Pennsylvania. And I am currently living about ten minutes down the road in Wilmington or Hockessin Delaware, which very small area. So if you’re familiar, congrats. How many people even know where Delaware is?

Lesley [00:00:50] I’ve driven through Delaware before but never stopped to visit.

Katie [00:00:58] Yeah, I know. It’s like, they call it the small wonder. There is- there is some fun stuff going on here, but a lot of people come for tax free shopping or drive through getting somewhere else.

Lesley [00:01:08] Right. Makes sense. Did you- which college or university did you go to and what did you study?

Katie [00:01:16] I went to Goldey-Beacom College, which is a business school in Wilmington, Delaware, and I played volleyball there for a couple of years. And my major was, well, business administration. But human resources.

Lesley [00:01:31] Cool, and what made you want to take that?

Katie [00:01:35] Well, honestly, once my parents let me know that there’s four siblings, and in order for them to afford college, I was going to have to pay for a lot of that myself. I went off a scholarship and that was really the only deciding factor. So I got a little bit of money academically and then a little bit of money to play volleyball. So that kind of made my choice. I really wanted to do something more like graphic design or something more creative, but I was just kind of like I didn’t want to go to a big university because I didn’t do well with big group settings. It’s really hard for me to concentrate. And so I just wanted to go to a smaller school. So that’s how I ended up there. And, you know, just I really like the fact that they placed- I think at the time they place like 98 percent of their students had full time jobs as soon as they graduated. So that was a big selling point for me. Other than that, it’s hard to make a decision when you’re 17, 18 years old. What do you want to do the rest of your life? I’m like, I’m 36 and I’m still like, I’m trying to figure that out still. So.

Lesley [00:02:38] Yeah, I mean it’s that’s- that’s kind of the thing, right? Like they make you make a decision about your entire future when you’re a teenager.

Katie [00:02:47] A child. Yeah.

Lesley [00:02:47] And you don’t- you have no like- well some like some teenagers do have a bit of life experience, but most people it’s like you don’t really know anything outside of your bubble and all of a sudden it’s like, so what do you want to do forever?

Katie [00:02:59] Mm hmm. I know, it’s hard. And for me it was looking back, I had anxiety. I still do. But it was hard for me to- like, it felt so permanent. And it’s really not. It’s not a permanent change. But it just felt so like, oh, my gosh, I’m going to do this the rest of my life? Like I’m going to sit behind a desk the rest of my life? Am I going to be in an office the rest of my life? I just- it was- it was hard. It was a really hard decision.

Lesley [00:03:23] Yeah, I think that’s a good point. Like it- it is- you think it’s permanent, but realistically, it doesn’t have to be permanent. You can do whatever you want at any point in your life. But it feels like a permanent decision when you’re, you know, this big and the world is this big ahead of you, right?

Katie [00:03:39] Yes, exactly. That that sums it up perfectly how I felt.

Lesley [00:03:45] So right now, you are more of an influencer, personal brand kind of thing, correct?

Katie [00:03:54] Well, so I have a nine to five job, but yeah, I do- I would call it more personal brand. I don’t ever think I’m an influencer, but somebody said if you’re influencing people to do things or if you talk to people and you suggest they do X, Y and Z and anyone follows, it’s considered an influencer. I don’t think of it that way. I think of it more like, I don’t know. I just like being myself on social media and kind of like finding my people. I always feel like I’m kind of like I’m a mom, but I don’t want to be like, that’s not my only thing, you know what I mean? I just I just always kind of feel like there’s so much more to me than the nine to five thing. And being a wife and a mom, like, there’s so many different facets of everyone, not just me. And I just always felt like, I don’t know, I just always was like feel like I was working my 9:00 to 5:00, but I was still, like, looking for something else, like I wasn’t fulfilled. Like my 9:00 to 5:00 is- I’m fortunate. I’ve worked pretty hard to get where I’m at and I have a good salary, I have good benefits. I love my coworkers. I have a great boss, which is a lot of people complain about their boss. I have a great boss. And my husband has a landscaping company. So I was always under the mindset like I need to have a 9:00 to 5:00 because of the benefits and the stability in case something happens to that. And- but I just always felt like something’s missing. And then I had kids and I was like, OK, yeah, this, you know, feels like I’m getting a little bit of something, but I still felt like I’m missing something. And I always was more of a creative kind of even when I was a kid, I used to write a lot of stories and draw. And just like I always thought I would do more of that as a career, which is why I always wanted for college, I would go do graphic design or something like that, and I didn’t. So I feel like that piece was always just kind of out there, like not being fulfilled. So then I was like, I need to find something that I can do on the side that’s like just for me and no one else. And so I don’t know. I played around with the whole influencer thing and I was just like, I just don’t like all these mom influencers on here. Like, I can’t do that where it’s like, let’s put on magic pajamas and take a picture and in our white background in our white house and our marble countertops and I’m like, I don’t have any of that stuff. So then I just was like, I just want to be myself on here. But it’s- it’s not something I was comfortable with for a long time. So it’s been- it’s been a road to where I’m at now.

Lesley [00:06:24] What kind of made you decide to take that kind of leap and just start putting your- creating content and putting yourself out there?

Katie [00:06:31] Well, so I actually- I started using a product and I fell in love with this product. And the girl that I bought the product from, she was like, have you ever thought about promoting it on social media? And I was like, absolutely not. I think that those people that message people and say, like, hey, girl, you want to try this shake? I just saw you had a baby. Looks like you might need some way to- like people like that, because I’ve gotten those messages. I’m like, no, I’m not, no, I’m not doing that. And then I was like, thinking about it. I’m like, I’m already literally told my mom, my sisters, my coworkers about this product. And a lot of them were buying it. I was like I’m already doing this and I’m not making any money off of it. Like, let’s just see. And I was already doing stuff on the side. I was at the time making designing like kids and babies, like onesies like that I thought were funny and like not the cheesy typical kids’ clothes. And I just- I couldn’t stick with it. And it was just- it was a lot. It was times- it was very time consuming. And I was thinking, well, I was like, this is kind of like business in a box, like it’s already set up. I don’t have to ship products, like I already love the product. So let me just do it for a year and see what happens. And when I signed up for that, I was like, I’m going to have to step outside of, like where I’m comfortable at, which was like pictures of my kids, pictures of my husband, pictures of my dog, but like never me. Like I never showed my face because I just- I wasn’t comfortable doing it, doing it. So then when I signed up to promote this product, I was like, I’m going to need to step outside of my box, but like on my time. And I kind of worked through that. And it’s something I still- like sometimes I’m like, oh, this is so embarrassing. Like, should I post this? And then I’m like, oh, well, who cares? Like, you know, just like kind of like this is who I am. Like, I’m going to post it. And any time I feel that like that fear of like being judged I’m like you need to post it, because that’s what I always tell people when they message me on Instagram, like I don’t know how you’re like, how are you so confident? Like, I am not. I’m not confident, but as soon as I feel the fear, I have to do it. So that’s like one of my things. As soon as I feel that gut, like I can’t do this, then I’m like, you got to post it. It’s like one of my rules. So I can’t tell other people to do that if I don’t follow up myself.

Lesley [00:08:51] Right. Yeah. So that kind of yeah.

Katie [00:08:54] When I pushed myself, but I mean it was a process. And then honestly being in quarantine, I’m an introvert. Like I don’t love quarantine. Don’t get me wrong. I love being able to do things, but like when I want to do them. But in my heart of hearts, like I’m an introvert, I like not having to go into the office. And like I was always worried about, like, what are people at work going to think about me when I’m like- because they follow me. What are they going to think when I post this, like, ridiculous Reel or this or that, and now I don’t have to worry about it. So that actually has helped me a lot.

Lesley [00:09:29] Yeah.

Katie [00:09:29] Like my crutch.

Lesley [00:09:31] Yeah. Because you’re not- you’re not going on constantly, like you’re not going to be stepping out into public the next day and wondering like who saw my video, who’s thinking about my video.

Katie [00:09:42] Yeah. And now I’ve gotten to the point where I’m like you don’t pay my bills, so I don’t care. Or you- like, am I going to be on my deathbed thinking to myself, man, I wonder if so-and-so from work thought that was embarrassing? No, I’m not. I’m not going to be thinking about that. So why do I care about it now? So I’m just trying to more like live for myself and not worry about other people. So that’s kind of where I’m at now. And I know once my kids are older, they’re going to be like you’re so cringy and like, whatever girl. Is your college paid for? Yes. OK, so. Yeah, but we’ll cross that when we get to it. So right now I’m just like I’m doing this for me and myself and and no one else.

Lesley [00:10:25] Right. That makes it. And it seems like that’s a lot more of a more authentic approach, because like I know- I know exactly what you’re talking about when you say people message you and you’re like, hey, girl, whatever. And it’s never, ever- because I’ve gotten that a lot from people I haven’t talked to in like ten years.

Katie [00:10:43] Like high school.

Lesley [00:10:45] Yeah. And it never feels authentic because it all is just copy and pasted from some script that they’re given. So doing that approach is- like your approach is much more authentic because like I’ve seen, like I’ve gone through or I’ve looked at like your Instagram page and it’s much more like here’s what my life is like right now with my kids and all this. And it’s just like this is a real approach to it. Like, look, this life isn’t perfect. And I think that’s. Yeah, and I think that’s an important thing for people who are going to- even, not even influencers, but just people who have like an online persona like that. I think that’s key.

Katie [00:11:26] Yes, I think if- so, something I’ve learned recently and this was honestly so refreshing to me is like Instagram is not what it was in 2017 where everything was these picture perfect whitewashed backgrounds like you go on their feed and everything matches. People are smart and they know that’s not real and they don’t connect. It’s social media. It’s about connections. People don’t connect with somebody who they can’t relate to. So if they don’t feel like they can relate to a part of your life, they’re not going to follow you. And like you always just want to find your people anyway. So maybe that works for them. They find their people that are just like them. But I just- to me, I had to unfollow a lot of people because I was following a lot of these mom influencers when I was pregnant. And then when I had a baby, I was like, I have no idea what I’m doing. But then I just felt like this comparison all the time. I’m like, oh, my gosh, look at their house. They’re like their kid is always dressed in a nice outfit. Meanwhile, mine is like in the same onesie she’s been in and she’s literally in the same zip up and then she spits up on it and I change her into another zip up because like, I can’t deal with putting on seventeen different articles of clothing and I just feel like this comparison. And then one day I was like, as soon as I feel myself comparing to someone else, I’m unfollowing them. Like I can’t deal with it. So I started doing that. And then I was like, I just feel like there’s like something to be said for just being, like, open and honest and and saying, like, this stage of my life is hard or this is hard. That doesn’t mean you don’t like your kids or you don’t like your job. Whatever it is, you’re hard at the time. It doesn’t mean that you don’t appreciate it or love it. It just means that, like, you’re being honest. Like I have so many people messaging me like, oh, I relate to this so much because of X, Y and Z, but I love my kids. And they always say that. Like- but- but, you know, I love my kids. I’m like, yeah, you don’t have to say but I love my kids. Like, we know you love your kids. Like, you don’t have to say that. It’s OK to say parenting is hard. And that’s- then that’s it period. You don’t need to elaborate with that like that, you love your kids. We all love our kids. But parenting is hard. Or I love my job but, you don’t have to say you love your job. It’s OK to not like a piece of something that you’re doing, but still be able to put your heart into it. I just feel like I was kind of lacking that on my Instagram so just one day I was like, I’m to be honest about this. And then I started getting feedback from you know, whoever on Instagram followers, I hate calling it- I hate saying followers, because it sounds so gross, but-.

Lesley [00:13:54] I know.

Katie [00:13:54] People say it’s- I’m like, I always say, like my Instagram friends because I hate when- it just sounds so like, your followers like a cult. I follow this person and it’s like, no, you’re my friend. Like they message me and they say, I’m so glad you posted this. I feel the same exact way. And I really needed to hear that today. And once I started getting those messages, I was like, OK, you need to like tap into that and kind of go a little bit deeper and just started really like talking on my stories more and being honest. And I mean, I always make jokes about everything because that’s how I deal with everything. But I’ve just noticed a shift once I just was like, I don’t care. Let’s just be our truest self on here and people will unfollow and that’s fine. I mean, I’m sure I have friends and family that have unfollowed me and then like, catch me on Facebook once a year when I post a picture of my kids and that’s about it. Or, you know, so I just kind of have to, you know, go and do what I feel is authentic for me. And it’s made me happier. I feel- I don’t know. I feel like I’m- that gap that I was talking about earlier is like that cup is being filled. So I don’t feel that void of like I’m missing something.

Lesley [00:15:06] Right. Do you think that’s kind of the biggest thing you would say to anyone else who’s trying to kind of go the same way or trying to build up their own Internet persona? I’m just going to keep saying that instead of influencer. Is that kind of one of the things you would say to like a student or someone younger, like who’s just graduated university, who’s trying to do the same thing?

Katie [00:15:29] Yeah, I would say, like, I wish I started doing this like when I first got on Instagram or if if I was just graduating college, I would- even if you’re getting a full time job, go full in. You have time. You can do this. Like you can just put- put yourself out there and it’s going to seem scary and you can pivot and change your niche like they say, you know, you have to niche down, but you can pivot and change that as you grow up and as you- as you change. But I would just- just be yourself. And everyone says that. And it’s so cliche and so cheesy, but it’s so true because there is billions of people on these apps, right? And there’s probably hundreds of thousands of people trying to do the same thing that you’re trying to do. But there is something that they’re going to relate to about you that’s different than Becky the influencer. There’s- there’s just something different about you that they’re going to relate to. Like for me, I attract a lot- and when I talk to some of these people that follow me, I’m like they literally, like when they talk, I’m like, I feel like I’m talking to a girlfriend because I’ve attracted my, as I call them, my hot mess moms. It’s like I’ve attracted them. And it’s been honestly so nice to just be able to talk to people who kind of feel the same way I do, and just like, I don’t know, it’s just just be yourself and tap into it and don’t care about what other people think and stop comparing yourself to other people. If you’re following somebody and they’ve shot up in growth and you haven’t, just stay the course and just keep doing what you’re doing and keep doing what feels right. And it will start to kind of change once you hit your stride.

Lesley [00:17:04] Yeah, I think that’s that’s a good point because, I mean, if you look at some of the the influences out there, who they do have those carefully, strategically photo shoots like professional photos and it all, they all kind of look the same. And it’s like, OK, it’s like- there was a while ago, like within the last year there was this thing I saw. I can’t remember where I saw it, like somewhere on BuzzFeed or something. And there was like this plane cabin and it was like it turned out that all these influencers were pretending they were going on vacation, but they were just renting out this plane to take photos in the plane. And I can’t remember the details, but it was just something along the lines of there was a plane that influencers were renting to take photo shoots in. And it- just that kind of thing. They- they all kind of look the same. And like the people who stand out are the people who people can relate to. And obviously, like you’re targeting your own audience properly because you’re talking about your- your followers or your Instagram friends are following you because they relate to you and they’re going to like the issues that you’re going through. And I think that’s more important than having a super stylized feed.

Katie [00:18:21] Yeah, I actually was listening to a podcast from somebody who does like social media marketing and whatever, and she was like saying, remember when we used to Photoshop ourselves on pictures in like Paris and blah, blah, blah? And I was like, ew, wait, people were doing that? To me it was like, oh my gosh. I was like, that’s gross. Like, why would you do that? And but she was like, if you were trying to grow on social media in like 2015, 2016, 2017, she was like people were doing that. Like taking pictures of themselves on the beach with a laptop. And she was like, how fake is that? You can’t even see your screen like the brightness, like you can’t see what you’re doing, who’s actually taking their laptop on the beach? And it’s like people- but maybe before that was a thing and people bought into it. But people don’t buy into that anymore. And I think that is something of the past. And it’s just refreshing for people like me who like that. I would never even think to do that, let alone like I would never post it, just be like that. I just wouldn’t post anything at all. And that was part of it. As soon as I would like go to make a post, someone else would pop up on my feed. And I’m like, oh my gosh. Like, look at her with her beautiful home or oh, she has this expensive handbag or taking a picture of your manicure behind your Mercedes logo. And I’m just like like who would care to hear anything from me about, like, side hustles and why you should have them and why you need to be doing X, Y and Z to save money when I’m taking a picture in the car that I’ve driven for 11 years and my nails haven’t been done in a while and I don’t have a Louis Vuitton. But so as soon as I stopped caring about that, though, I think things started to really change and just kind of like tap into my my people instead of worrying about Becky the influencer.

Lesley [00:20:13] Yeah, I think that’s like that’s kind of the key thing. And I think that could apply to not even anybody who’s trying to be like an online personality, but anybody in general, just like- like a lot of what these people post is not reality. So stop compare yourself to someone else, because that’s not even their reality.

Katie [00:20:34] No, it’s- it’s not. And that’s the thing. It’s like- and I feel bad for people that go through this, but there are so many words like they post about their perfect marriage and their perfect this. And then next thing you know, you don’t hear about it anymore and then you don’t see them on social media and then you find out that they got divorced and that’s like that’s fine. But like, tell people the real truth and like, let them be there for you instead of trying to paint this persona of this perfect life that- that is not real for anyone. Everyone goes through hard times. I’m not saying you need a post like the crazy details of stuff, but just be honest. Like today- like today was hard, X, Y and Z happened, but you know what? Tomorrow is a new day and everything’s going to be fine. But, you know, there’s, you know, a line between- I’m like- I mean, I don’t want to post videos of my kids screaming everyone- every day. But every once in a while I do. And I turn the sound off and I’m like, this is real life parenting. Because I had so many friends who have had babies recently who are like, you know what, I, really some of your stories on Instagram kind of scared me a little bit, but at least I felt like I knew what I was getting myself into rather than like someone else who’s just posting these glamour shots of their newborn and not talking about how they haven’t slept in two weeks and they feel crazy. I was like, yeah, because that’s real life. It’s like your whole world changes. Like, let’s talk about it. So I’m seeing more and more of those, like real life, like more being open and honest and being like true real human beings, and it’s just nice and it’s refreshing to see kind of more of that. And 2020 I feel like kind of peeled back a lot in everyone’s life and like what was going on. So it’s just been kind of a nice shift to see on a- on- on different platforms.

Lesley [00:22:25] Yeah, I think so too. And I’ve noticed, like a lot of people- I’ve noticed, even within the pandemic circumstances, a lot more people have just been a little more vulnerable and open on wherever like on TikTok or- I’ve noticed that a lot on TikTok because I use TikTok a lot.

Katie [00:22:41] Yeah, same.

Lesley [00:22:41] But on Instagram and wherever, and just being more open and honest because so many people are kind of going through the same thing. And in another way too, doing that, if you’re feeling- because I know like a lot of people right now are feeling alone and isolated. And if you’re going through something like that, putting yourself out there on where whatever platform you’re using is actually also a really good way to find that support. And, you know, all those people will be coming back to you and saying, are you OK? I’m here for you, that you may not have even known they cared before.

Katie [00:23:19] Yes, I know it is nice and TikTok just makes you feel more normal. Sometimes I see people I’m like man this is- I- and- but people are so creative on TikTok too.

Lesley [00:23:30] Oh, I know.

Katie [00:23:30] It’s so cool to see, like, the different stuff that people do. And I mean, quarantine has made people just really tap into their- their more fun creative side. I feel like because there’s no choice, you’re stuck at home and you’ve got nothing to do. So why not?

Lesley [00:23:46] Yeah, I honestly, I- I really kind of rejected TikTok at first because I was like, I’m too old for this. Like it’s- it’s like- I don’t even understand this, but once I started using it I just- it is addicting.

Katie [00:24:00] Oh it’s so addicting. And that’s one of the things I have to like- I set timers for myself and that’s one of the ones I have to like- because I use TikTok for like creative purposes to really have new ideas. And- but if I don’t set a timer and then that guy pops up, that’s like, hey, you’ve been on here for a while. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that. Like I’m talking about like you have to be on there for a little bit. Like one night I was scrolling and I was like, oh, my God, this guy popped up. It’s like you’ve been scrolling for a while. And I was like, this is so embarrassing. I like put the app down about like threw my phone. I was like, go to bed, what are you doing? But it is. It’s like- and the for you page like they will always find something for you. It never ends. Same with Instagram and I’m sure Facebook too. But it’s like you can really get sucked in there. Yeah. I mean I feel the same way. I was like man, I feel like I’m too old for this because I got the app last- not 2020 summer, the summer of 2019 I downloaded it and I was like, this is confusing. What’s going on? I don’t know what this is and I deleted it and then I downloaded it again, like right before 2020 started and started making videos and I was like, oh, this is like fun. And people in here seem so much more real and open and honest and just like creative. So I just really started doing TikToks a lot. And I was like, this is just fun. So it was just refreshing. I was like, this is just a lot of people just- I mean, there are some not fun people on there. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve gotten some really crazy messages, but I’ve also gotten really good messages. And like you said before, like people that are like, I haven’t seen you post in a while, like it’s everything OK? I’m like, well, OK. I’ve been here on a lot. I’m like, everything’s fine. Just quarantined with kids and a full time job. So it’s a little crazy, but yeah.

Lesley [00:25:50] Yeah, it’s definitely just nice to know, like, oh people do care. Like people are paying attention.

Katie [00:25:57] Mm hmm. Yeah.

Lesley [00:25:58] Yeah. So I know, I know you did kind of mentioned this briefly, but I know you talk a lot about on your page about side hustles and starting a side hustle and things like that. So do you have any kind of- kind of tips for side hustles specifically that you would recommend for students who are kind of looking for a little thing to do on the side to kind of either make extra money or just build up a brand or anything like that?

Katie [00:26:27] Oh, my gosh, there’s so many. So I feel like a lot of people when they hear side hustles they think of like Uber or Uber Eats or GrubHub delivery. And that’s great if you need like instant cash. Like if cash is an issue and you’re trying to make ends meet and you don’t know where to start, like, that’s great. But I would just always try to motivate you to think more of, like, more passive or you don’t have to show up somewhere to make that money. And I feel like 2020 kind of helped push that initiative a little bit more. Unfortunately, with everything in the service industry kind of taking a hit, I feel like it’s kind of opened people’s minds on- the online business space is humongous and it’s getting bigger now, right? Because a lot- a lot of people are shopping less in stores. And I feel like even if and when this ever ends, I feel like it’s still going to keep growing the e-commerce or online online communities. It’s just going to keep building. So. If I was- would you say in college age? I would- there’s so many. It’s like- so first of all, I mean, if you can create something that- like I see a lot of people have a lot of success with like, you know, making like printables and selling them on Etsy because it’s like it’s one file. And then once they pay, they download it. So you can literally make something once and every single time somebody buys it, it’s automatic. You don’t have to do anything. There’s things like that. There’s affiliate- affiliate commissions that you can get through so many different sites. There’s a million of them online. And you don’t have to have a large community to do that. You can literally just talk about the product and what it does and then have a link in your bio and people send them that way. There’s so many things. There’s drop shipping, which I’ve heard good and bad about. I just would be careful with that because drop shipping is where you you get products and company ships them out for you. So you don’t have to have the commission or the- I’m sorry, you don’t have to have the products and you don’t have to handle the shipping. But a lot of people have said they thought they were shipping things from the United States and it’s coming from China and it’s taking three months to get to the people’s house. So there’s good and bad with that. Another thing that I still do and I’ve been doing for a while is. Sorry, is thrifting and reselling. So you can either thrift and resell furniture and resell it on Facebook marketplace or you can thrift clothes and you can sell them on Poshmark, eBay, all kinds of there’s so many apps. The only thing with that is you have to have somewhere to actually hold the product, the the clothing. So it just kind of depends on where you are. But I think if you don’t need that fast cash, I would try to really brainstorm and come up with ideas of things that you can do that don’t require you to go and deliver food or go and drive people around and Uber. Like it is great money. But, you know, the whole like having to go in and pick someone up and take them somewhere, pick up their food and take them, like it’s great for fast cash if you need money to start up a business. But I would just try to find something that you can do on an online space. And like I said, network marketing, if you find a product that you love, but just do the due diligence, try the products, really love them, and not just think you’re going to love them and sign up. Use the products for a while, if it’s something that you really love that’s changed your life in some type of way. I would do that, but it’s not for everyone. So I just- there’s so many things, courses that you could do. Podcasts are doing great, I feel like. And there’s different ways that you can make money with that, building up advertisement and following it, just like anything that you can do online. I would fully, fully support. Just be very careful with what you do and do your research and. I don’t know, I guess it depends on the person. I mean, I’ve done so much stuff that it’s like- I mean, at one point I was cutting wine corks and super gluing them on wooden letters and selling them for people’s weddings as like- like putting their initials. And I have one in my house still. I mean, like I said, I designed kids’ t-shirts and printed them. And I didn’t even- I stopped designing them. I would even farm that on farm that out on Fiverr. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen that site, but. So you can go on Fiverr and you can get somebody to design all kinds of graphics. You can get people to do really anything. And it’s actually really pretty cheap. And I would get- I would say I want this is the kind of thought I have on what I want the shirt to look like, they would do a design and just make sure that you get the rights to it. And then you can use sites like- what is it? Oh, Printful is one of them. There’s T-shirt sites that you literally upload the graphic and you pick what shirts that you want it printed on the price that you want to sell for. And you can link it to Etsy or a website or Shopify store and they will literally print it and ship it for you. So you don’t have to do any of that. So there’s tons of different stuff you can do. Like I said, I’ve done a lot of them. I was just always like looking for my thing. And I was like, what is my thing? Like, I loved making these shirts, but it was just- it was just- it just got too time consuming. And that’s what I’m like for a college kid, like, that’s perfect because although you think you’re busy like you’re not. Trust me. You’re not. Like I thought I was super busy in college. And it turns out I wasn’t. I was way busier once I graduated and had a job and had- had to get a part time job because my full time job didn’t pay enough and do all that stuff. So.

Lesley [00:32:34] Yeah, I kind of- I kind of went through that same thing when I was in- when I was in my last year, my fourth year of university, and I did a double major. So like I was doing two programs. But my fourth year, because the way that the two programs I was taking, they both- the final year was basically just two big thesis projects. So I didn’t actually have any classes. And I was like, oh, these are huge projects. These are like 40 page papers. But I was not busy. Like I was thinking I was like, I should do something else, like I should get a job or something. Because like I am bored.

Katie [00:33:16] Yeah, see and I had the opposite problem my senior year. So I went and- at my school, the guidance counselors- and I say in quotes because they didn’t really, like, guide me to anything.

Lesley [00:33:27] I hear that- I hear that a lot.

Katie [00:33:28] Oh, my gosh. I’m- now I’m like, what a job. Like, that’s the job I should have gotten because they’re not doing anything. It doesn’t seem like it, at least in my school. But so they used to just automatically sign us up for our courses. And I thought that just meant that, like, this is your- you’re taking human resources as your major. These are the classes you need. And before my senior year, my mom was like, you should ask them to make sure you’re going to graduate on time. I was like, what do you mean? Like, I’ve been crushing it. Like, why wouldn’t I graduate on time? These are the classes I need. And they had- it was such a low course load. I was like, yeah, I’m going to graduate on time. Like, look, I only have like a couple, I forget how many classes. And my mom was like, I don’t know, I would go there and meet with them. And I was like, and I’m like I said, introverted. And I was like, I do not want to meet- I don’t want to go sit down and have to talk to this lady. So I went anyway because I was scared my mom was going to be right and I want to be there and I’ll be damned. She was right. And they’re like, oh, you know, you’ll just come back next year. And I was like, I’m sorry, what? She’s like, just come back for a fifth year, you know, like everyone does five years. And I was like everyone whose parents are paying for college probably. But like, I’m not on that schedule. I need to graduate in four years. And they were like, there’s no way that you’ll get all this done. Like, there’s no way that you’ll take all these classes and graduate. And I was like- Like, as soon as they said that, I was like, oh, I’m competitive. So like, I’ll show you. I was like, load it up. And she’s like, this is not like, OK for the- and I was like, I don’t care. Then at that point I was like, you’re not getting another cent of my money. It’s like load it up. I took oh my gosh. I feel like I forget how many classes I took my senior year. I don’t know. But it was like triple what I took the year before. I mean, I was taking these at our school they had these like condensed classes where you took it for two weeks, but it was literally all day long, like you were there first thing in the morning, I forget what they were called, but you were there like all day with a lunch break and a dinner break. And if you got the cool teacher, they would take out one of your breaks and they’d let you out.

Lesley [00:35:44] Let you out early.

Katie [00:35:44] Yeah. And then on the last week, the second week on Saturday, you had to take your final. So those were like the classes, like psychology and stuff like that. So I was I mean, I was at school so much, but I was like, I will be damned if I come back here another year. And I am so glad that my mom made me do that because I graduated college in 2007. 2008, the whole economy fell apart and all my friends who took five years to graduate that we were on the same timeline, they were all having a really hard time getting jobs and finding jobs. And a lot of my friends had to take like jobs that they did not want because it was the only option. I had a friend who was student teaching and she didn’t want to be a teacher. She was just like, I need to do something. And I was just like I just remember like saying my mom, like, I know I don’t tell you this enough, but you were right. You’re always right. I don’t know why I don’t listen to you more like I should just literally do whatever you tell me to, because it was it was hard. It was very difficult, but it was well worth it. And I was just like a mess by the time I went to graduate. I was like having panic attacks and like ready to just like, I couldn’t wait to get out of there, like, get me out of here. I want to pay this place. Give me out here. Like, I could have run across that stage. I wanted that diploma so bad.

Lesley [00:37:10] Right. I think that’s a big thing. Like, I think being proactive or being proactive or just kind of being accountable for yourself and making- like not relying on everything falling into place is- is a really big thing for university students that you have to learn how to do that and to get used to that, because in high school, they everyone kind of does that. Not everyone does it for you. But things are kind of taking care of. You’re on it- like all your classes are picked, your schedule is given to you. Your teachers tell you when you’re behind on something or your teachers will tell you, like, here’s what I think you need to do. But in your- in university, you have to do all of that. You have to advocate for yourself in university. And I think that’s a big thing that people don’t really get used to. And like I had a friend when I was in university who didn’t do that and kind of just like was sifting through whatever his guidance counselor was telling him. And then it turned out he ended up having to take an extra year and do five years in a four year program because he didn’t bother double checking and was just listening to what the counselor was saying and didn’t realize he needed like a couple of these other credits or whatever.

Katie [00:38:27] And it’s always like the worst classes that you don’t want to take over- the last year is always like the hardest and most like, I don’t know, just compact classes that you’re like, oh, this is terrible. Like, why didn’t we stack these in the beginning when it’s all like the layup classes that are like psychology and sociology and whatever other business class you have to take, it’s like the fourth year when it’s like the hard, hard classes. Or like my school is a business school. A lot of the teachers were actually working in the field that they were teaching in so they only taught at night. So, you know, like if that class wasn’t available, you had to find- you had to wait a whole nother year to take it. And it’s like- it just was terrible. But the thing that my mom said that stuck with me, though, was like, this is still a business. Like they still want money.

Lesley [00:39:18] Right.

Katie [00:39:19] And you don’t think that because you’re a student and you think teachers are teachers and the administrators or whatever, and everyone’s here for you and they’re not. Like this college wants to line its pockets anyway it can. It’s still a company and it’s still trying to make money. And I was like, oh, my gosh, she’s right. And she was because every year we got a letter that said, Merry Christmas, happy holidays, hope you’re having a good break, your tuition is going up 12 percent this year. And it was every year. I was like, oh, 12 percent every year like that- like- like how are they allowed to do that? My dad was like they’re a private college. There’s no- there’s no rules behind them. They can do whatever they want. I was like, OK, I got to get out of here. It’s like it was getting expensive. I was like, man, I should just gone to the state college. I would have gotten out of here. And a lot less money probably. But, you know, you live you learn.

Lesley [00:40:14] Right. Yeah. That’s kind of the thing, right. A lot of it’s kind of trial and error. But I mean, yeah, 12 percent is- in tuition is a big jump.

Katie [00:40:23] Yeah. Yeah. And thankfully, you know, my parents, you know, got the student loans and everything, and I- like when I graduated, I really didn’t have a whole lot of debt compared to what I like, some other people I know. But some of my friends also, like their parents were able to just pay for their whole thing and they didn’t have to worry about it. So I feel like they were the ones that were kind of just like do, do do, like going through it. And my mom was like, you got to pay for some of this. And, you know, it’s it’s going to be a five year. What if it’s five years and you have to pay another- I forget what it was up to, fifteen thousand a year, which isn’t a lot compared to what they are now. But at the time, like for me and how much money I had in the bank, I was like, I am not- we are not paying. No, not another year. I will. I was like, I’ll start working without a degree. Like, I’m not doing that. So yeah, that’s something you just got to keep in mind is like they’re still- they’re still a business, right? They’re still trying to make money any way they can. So I always like you have- you have to be an advocate for yourself. And another thing my parents did is like that I hated them for at the time was my dad made me call Fannie Mae and negotiate my- my loan statement, like the interest rates are low, like you got to call them and tell them you want a lower interest rate. And I was like, I’m not doing that. Like, what, are you crazy? I don’t know how to do that. He was like just here, I’ll sit next to you, put it on speaker and I’ll tell you what to say. And I’m like- because I had two separate loans and he was like, ask them to combine them and ask them to lower the rate. The interest rates have dipped since we opened this. I was like ready to pass out. I’m like, I’m going to pass out. Like I’m falling over just on the phone talking to this guy like I can’t- and then he’s like ask for the manager, ask for his manager, ask for his manager. It was like, I don’t want to do this. I was like crying on the phone and my dad made me do it. And you know what? Now I’m like, I do that all the time. I call the cable company and negotiate with them. I’ll negotiate with anyone. And I’m like, I was thinking about this the other day. I’m like, some of the stuff your parents are making you do when you’re a kid that you just can’t stand them for when you get to be an adult, you’re like, I get it now. I totally get it. And they were just trying to set me up for- for easier independent life so.

Lesley [00:42:50] That- I would have been- I would have dreaded that if my parents had said, come talk to your loan company on the phone. I would have been like, no.

Katie [00:43:00] I got sweaty when my mom would make me order pizza on a Friday night. I was like, no, no. What if I tell them the wrong address. And she was like, why would you do that?

Lesley [00:43:12] Messing up on the spot.

Katie [00:43:12] I know, like, oh my gosh, what if they say we don’t have mushrooms on the pizza for pizza? What do you want next? And my mom was like, I don’t- just call. I’m like, okay. And then when he was like call the loan people I’m like, I don’t even know what these words mean. Like, I didn’t know. Like, what do you mean interest rate? What- we have- we have interest on this? And my dad’s like, oh my gosh, yes, we pay interest on it. Like it’s not free money. I’m like, oh I just could not fathom it. I was like, what’s happening right now? And now I’m like, I’ll call them and negotiate whatever. But what’s the worst they’re going to do? Tell me no? But like, sometimes when I’m on the phone, I’m like my parents, my mom and my dad. But they would force us to do those, like, scary things. And at the time I hated them for it. But now I’m like totally get why I did it. And now that I’m a parent, I’m like, I would totally do that. I would make my kids do that for sure. Right. Just laugh when I watch them sweat.

Lesley [00:44:05] Right. And I mean, it’s not all fun and games. You have to you have to do the tough stuff too, so. Did you did you start doing, like these side hustles and stuff, did you start kind of doing that while you were in school or was that kind of something that you kind of started doing later on after you graduated?

Katie [00:44:27] I mean, I wish. I wish I was doing them when I was in college, but I feel like when I was in college, the online space was very different. Like Facebook was like just starting. And this is going to date me. But Facebook was like just starting. And when I was in school, Facebook was only allowed for people who had like a edu or whatever on their email. Like it wasn’t for everyone. Like you had to have a school email. It was just for students. And I signed up for it. But I never pursued anything. I never checked it because I didn’t have a smartphone. So I would have to actually log in like at school, at the lab to like, check my Facebook, which I never did. But I mean, I always had- like my senior year when I was doing all the things I also- this is partly why I was having panic attacks. I also had a part time job. I had two jobs. So I worked at a sandwich place and I worked at a furniture store and I ended up quitting the furniture store. But I- like I always was like trying to do multiple things. And I used to always, like, kind of daydream about like if I work for myself, like, what would I do? And that was always like in the back of my head, like, am I going to be able to sit at a desk all day long and have someone tell me what to do? And I do do that. But I also, like, do something for myself. I wish that I would have started something on the side in college or right after college to just make that side money and kind of just start building up something for myself to either invest or put towards something, because I just like thinking back like, all right, I graduated in 2007. It’s 2021. Like if I would have started back then, like how big it would be now, but there’s no too late to start something. And I think also when you’re young like the just the possibilities are endless and the amount of technology and the things that, that the younger generations pick up so quickly, like watching my kids on their tablets and like what they figure out and they’re two and four. I’m like, wait, how do you get there? How did you get to that screen? Like, where where are you? Like, how do you know how to do that? And they’re two and four, so like I get it why there’s so many younger kids making YouTube channels and doing stuff like that, because they are smart and they see the future and maybe maybe college is in your future, maybe it’s not. And maybe you, you know, if you want to do something else. And maybe there’s a fire in your gut and you’re like, I just want to do something else, but you’re not sure. So maybe you do it while you’re in school and see if that’s the right fit. So when you’re- when you’re working during the day, so you have an eight to five job, you have nothing else going on after that. You have so many hours that you could put towards creating or, you know, making a product or selling or marketing yourself or building up your personal brand and just kind of doing something for yourself so that maybe one day you don’t want to work that eight to five anymore, or maybe you do and you’re just going to use that side money to pay off your college debts or to buy a car or whatever you want. But at least you’re not just playing that hamster wheel of, like, trying to get promoted at a company and like trying to make ends meet and living that paycheck to paycheck life. If that’s where you find yourself, it just it would be nice to to build it up at a younger age when you have a lot less priorities going on.

Lesley [00:47:55] It’s something I actually didn’t think about is like how much easier it is right now for people to have a side hustle.

Katie [00:48:04] Oh, my gosh. It’s crazy.

Lesley [00:48:05] Either while you’re in school or even just in general, like with the Internet and like how much easier it is to do any of that, because there’s apps, there’s websites, but.

Katie [00:48:16] There’s so many YouTube videos. You could go on YouTube and look up how to do affiliate sales and you could spend hours just researching and watching and you could be an expert in two days. It’s crazy because there’s so many free resources out there. But the problem is not just consuming it, but actually putting it into practice. So you learn something. That’s what you want to do, then start doing it, because that’s when you’re actually going to learn. Like you can watch the videos and that helps you get a like a starting point, but then putting it into places where you’re going to learn those like dos and do nots and like what works and what doesn’t. So it is- it’s- I wouldn’t say it’s a lot easier now. Like, I can’t even try to- I mean, YouTube was around, but I feel like I mean, I was never using it for anything. I mean, I think YouTube was around. Who knows? I don’t even know.

Lesley [00:49:06] I mean, I remember when Instagram- I was in university when Instagram kind of became a thing. And I remember I think I was in my second year of university when Instagram came out or whatever. And I remember when it first came out, it was only- you could only use it on an I pictures and it was only for iPhones. And I didn’t have an iPhone, so I had an iPad. And I remember like taking pictures of myself with my iPad just because I wanted to be on Instagram.

Katie [00:49:42] I know. I know. It’s crazy. And I feel like now that Clubhouse app is like that, right, where it’s like only iPhones can get it. But I know and the technology changes so much. But it’s like if you can get on those apps when they first open up, like that’s where the- that’s where the sweet spot is. I think if you can be an early settler on there, but like I like I was saying before, I used to get so like, kind of like I’ll never grow on Instagram because there’s so many people already on there and it’s so hard to grow now. All these people with the big accounts, it’s because they started so long ago and it was easier to get followers and the algorithm sucks. And dah dah dah. And that’s not the case. You can still grow. And even if you don’t have a large following, you can still make a good income on social media. I mean, I don’t have ten thousand followers and I make you know, and I’m- I’m not making groundbreaking money, but I’m making enough money to pay my mortgage and my kids’ day care bill, which is a lot. It’s like two mortgages, right? So it’s like- and I don’t have- I don’t have a huge following. I mean, I do have a bigger following on TikTok. But I mean, they’re not showing my videos to anyone anymore so I feel like just concentrating on Instagram. And like, it’s one of those things like if you start becoming- being yourself and showing your real self on there, you’ll- you’ll find your people who are like your- they’ll do anything to support you. Like if I say, you know, I would appreciate if you share this Reel, I’ll look and I’ll see like five or six people will share it like in the in thirty minutes. And that kind of stuff is like they have your back, like they support you no matter what. And they may never buy anything from you, but they support you by sharing your stuff and getting your your stuff seen by more, more people. So it’s like I don’t know, I think everybody so like bent on Instagram, about ten thousand followers. And it’s like that’s not gonna change anything. Like you get the swipe up. But people don’t want to see swipe ups all day long. It doesn’t feel- it doesn’t feel genuine. They want to feel like they have a relationship with someone. They feel like they have a friend who they can connect with. I mean, some of the people that I’ve become closest with, like some of them I’ve never met in person. I’ve met them through Instagram and I talk to them every day. And I feel like they’re my friend, you know, and like really- like you have inside jokes with them and they support you and they say to you, like, hey, I don’t need your product, but my mom or my sister or whoever is going to message you, she really is interested and stuff like that. It’s like they got your back and they’re always looking out for you kind of thing.

Lesley [00:52:23] So yeah, I think that genuine like authenticity thing is- is more effective for that- building that organic growth and that organic growth is way more important than just like getting as many followers at once as you can, because at least you have those- when you’re- when you have those genuine followers, like they’re going to actually want to see what you have to say and help you and share your stuff and engage with you instead of, you know, how many as how many people can I possibly get? Or whatever else.

Katie [00:52:57] Yeah, and brands are getting smarter. So, like a lot of people just- I want to be an influencer and work with brands and I want to get paid to post their stuff, which is great. But a lot of brands say, look at your analytics. And if you’ve paid for followers or you don’t have an engaged following fifty thousand followers, but you post a picture and you get 50 likes and one comment like they they pick up on that, they can see like your engagement is pretty low and they won’t work with you. But if you have- if you’re a micro influencer and you have two thousand followers and you post a picture and it gets, you know, 50 comments like that goes much longer, that that shows that brand that like, oh, wow. They have a following following. Like these these people like love everything that this girl says. And though the micro influencers seem like they’re going to be the 2021 grow up, I think. That’s like my- that’s my prediction anyway. It doesn’t mean it’s going to actually happen, but that’s when I kind of see like more and more of like I’ve seen some people I follow that have a thousand, fifteen hundred followers. And they’re getting deals from brands. Like the one girl, she has a campaign with Loft by Ann Taylor, and she has fifteen hundred followers. But when she posts, she gets tons of engagement and it’s like those are her people and they support her and they’re like ready and willing to pay for anything that she promotes because she’s built that relationship with them.

Lesley [00:54:24] Right? Yeah, that makes sense. And that’s something I’ve been hearing a lot about too recently with micro influencers just having that better engagement rate. But how did you kind of like, when you had multiple jobs and were taking school, stuff like that, how did you kind of like stay balanced yourself and avoid that burnout feeling? Like did you have kind of like time management thing you did or something like that?

Katie [00:54:50] Well, and- so my senior year of school, I was not managing it well. And I had- I started having actually I would have panic attacks. We didn’t know what it was. I was passing out randomly throughout the day. And I went to all these doctors and all this stuff. And my mom was just like, you have to stop, like, just graduate. Who cares? I was very like my grades, my grades, my grades, my grades. Like, I want to get this GPA. And my mom was like just graduate. No one cares what your GPA is. And I was like, yes, I do. Like when I get a job, they’re going to care. And she was right again about that. But so I was not managing things well then. But what I can say, like now what I’ve learned that I wish I knew when I was younger was just there are so many things. So for me timers, I have to set timers. Because like I said, I will get- I’ll get sucked into something. But for- for time management and being efficient, the timers work for me. So I’ll say, like, OK, I have ten minutes in between meetings and I need to write a post that I need to put up later sometime today. That doesn’t matter when. I just need to get a post up every single day and I don’t have one for today. So then I’ll say I have ten minutes. Let me write a post and I’ll set a timer. You can do it in Google, I do it on my laptop, or you can tell your your phone to set a timer for you and like I try to get it done as quick as possible. Like let me write up a caption, get my hash tags and a picture and- and just save it in my drafts on Instagram so that when it’s time when I have another five minutes or whatever to post it, I’ll go in and post it. I do this with everything. I do it with laundry. I do it with- if I start the coffeemaker. You know, there’s a few minutes of like I have nothing to do, I’ll- I’ll say, OK, let me go on Instagram and engage with as many people as possible for five minutes, because that’s going to help build my engagement, my following. Or something at the house. I have five minutes. Let me see if I can unload the dishwasher quicker than the coffee maker because I’m competitive. This is what I’ve been able to figure out about myself. It’s like I’m competitive with myself and if I know I’m being timed, I’ll work faster. And I do this with my kids too. It’s like, OK, let’s see if you can make your bed in five minutes and I’ll set a timer. And they love it. Like they love it. And I’m like, this is just like this works for me. It’s working for them, but the timers work for me. And then every Sunday I do like content planning for the week. So I just started doing this. But I’ll write down your five pillars or three to five pillars like what you’re known for and then write down like five ideas, four or five ideas in each pillar for posts. And so that way that I know like what I’m shooting for, for that week. And then as I post them, I check them off my list. So that kind of helps me with that, because if I don’t do that, I won’t post anything. Because it just becomes very overwhelming. And I’m like, oh my gosh, I can’t do anything. And then it’s crippling. But yeah, for me- and I tried all these apps for, like planners and I can’t. None of them work for me. The good old fashioned writing it down is the only way that it sticks. I have to put everything in the calendar. Every single thing is in a calendar. I at one point during quarantine, I had pop ups like alarms go off that like, you know, take a deep breath. Everything’s fine. Because I was getting so overwhelmed with work and being stuck at home with kids and my husband was out working outside of the house and I was like, I’m here by myself. I was with them 24/7 for however many months. And it was just so overwhelming that I was literally I had my whole day like chunked out and then I would have literal pop ups like, you know, get a post ready for six pm or whenever you can look after the kids, go to bed like seven, eight o’clock, whatever. But like throughout the day, I would set stuff like write a caption and do this, do this. And it was the only way for me to survive. But yeah, I think just everyone’s different. Figure out what works for you, because some of the things that other people said to do, like I would try them and it just it didn’t stick. So I just- I more recently started doing timers and it’s been working. And it sounds like such a silly thing to do, but for me, it’s working. And then, like, habit, it’s called like habit stacking. So like when you brush your teeth, you also after that you do this like if you associate one habit with another habit, it just becomes. Like when I start my coffee, I unload the dishwasher. When I start my coffee, I engage on social media. Like those things, you just kind of- and then it just becomes second nature where you don’t even think about it. Like after I’m done my last meeting for the day around like four thirty I have about 15 minutes till I get my kids. So every day, like, pick a thing, you know, if it’s put in my laundry or it’s something for business and I pick one and then I set a timer and if I get done early, then I get to pick something else. So it’s like whatever you’re must have done for the day is pick that one. And then after that it’s like, OK, if I get the laundry done earlier, it’s like a prize for me, like a reward. Like you got the laundry done three minutes before the timer, like, what can you do in three minutes, like for yourself? And then I’ll do something else. And I know it sounds like silly, but once I pick the kids up, it’s like game over. There’s no time for yourself until they go to bed. And then once they go to bed, sometimes I’m like, I don’t feel like doing anything.

Lesley [01:00:31] Right.

Katie [01:00:31] So.

Lesley [01:00:33] Yeah, so you kind of just tapped into your own competitive nature and- and kind of use that to motivate yourself and to try to challenge yourself, basically.

Katie [01:00:44] Yeah, and it’s been working out. I’ve got to say, I went from, like, posting once a month on social media to posting almost like six days a week. That’s usually what I like average. I’m trying to hit seven, but it’s like-.

Lesley [01:00:59] It’s a lot of work.

Katie [01:01:01] It’s hard. It is. And lots of people are like, how do you have the time to do it? I’m like, I don’t, but I don’t give myself the option. And like, yeah, I used to watch a lot more TV and stuff like that. So like, I cut back on doing that, like, just like at one point- watching- I love trashy reality TV, but at some point it’s like it’s not doing anything for me at this moment. But there is nights where I’m like I need this, like I need this mental escape where I can just watch this and like, lose myself in it. But if you really want something in your life and you want to make a change, like take out the unnecessary noise in your life, because it’s- it’s hard to do all of the things. Like it’s hard, especially when you have a lot of priorities. You have a lot of things that you have to manage that you’re responsible for. It’s like, are the Real Housewives going to help me be better at my business? No, they’re not. Yeah, but then some days I’m like, I need this. I just need to just not think and have my phone not be on and just like, stare at the TV for a little bit. So it just depends on the day. But.

Lesley [01:02:06] It’s kind of like the Marie Kondo thing, except for your mind and not necessarily just like your living room.

Katie [01:02:12] Oh my gosh, yes. I had to do so much Marie Konding to my brain over the last couple of years that it’s been like- it’s been a process, but it’s been- it’s been good for me.

Lesley [01:02:23] I think that’s- that’s- if anything is like positive that’s coming out of this time, I think that that’s probably one of those things. I feel like there’s a lot of people who have kind of been doing the same thing, just like reevaluating what brings them joy.

Katie [01:02:38] Yes. Yeah, there’s certain things that, like, you just are like, I just got to stop, like, I can’t do this anymore. This doesn’t do anything for me. And so if you can pick those things out and… And also just I think it’s helped people maybe cut ties with people in their lives that like they like- or maybe they’re toxic or negative people. And we’ve been able to kind of push them out easier because that’s a whole thing. And I love my job, but I also, like some of the workplace banter. You don’t even realize it can be very negative. And next thing you know, it’s like pulling you down or you’re chiming in and it’s- it’s the same thing, like when you’re younger, like talking trash on someone. I’ll look at her outfit and oh, my gosh, did you hear she did this with this person. And then next thing you know, you’re jumping in and joining in and it just- it’s just not a not a not a good place to be. It’s- I don’t know. I always say it’s like kind of like the woo woo hippie stuff, but you’re putting some bad, bad vibes out into the universe and what you put out, you get back. So it’s just- it’s been a long, a long road for me because I used to be a very negative person. That’s been really hard to to break out of that. But if you can and you find something that you can listen to or do every single day, like, I try to wake up and say three things I’m grateful for every morning, as soon as my feet hit the floor. Or if I have time, I’ll lay on the couch and just try not to think about anything and just set my intentions for the day and like today is going to be a good day, X, Y and Z. What went well yesterday and what’s going to happen today? I don’t know. It makes such a big difference. And I know it sounds crazy, but it’s for me, it works. I know some people it’s not their thing, but for me it works. It’s kind of brings you back down to what’s important and trying to stay out of those negative people that just suck the life out of you.

Lesley [01:04:39] That’s something that I’ve actually been hearing a lot lately, is this like I keep calling it, like the manifest mindset. I don’t know if that’s what it’s called, but just I’ve been hearing this more and more about people like manifesting something for yourself and kind of like making that happen.

Katie [01:05:00] Now, that’s the thing. I didn’t- I thought it was a bunch of weird hippie stuff for a while and it was probably just my negative mindset. But yeah, I started practicing like the whole manifesting thing. And to me, I just did, like, simple like I would- like in the morning I would close my eyes and visualize, like, something that I wanted. Like- or you just constantly saying, like, money flows to me easily and frequently. Or every time you swipe your debit card somewhere, you say there’s more where that came from. And like you don’t- it doesn’t matter. Like instead of having this mindset, every time you go to the grocery store, like it’s going to be like a three hundred dollar trip or however much, you know, when you swipe your card, it’s there’s more where that came from. And once I started doing that, I’m not kidding you. I started really, really, truly random. We got a check from the IRS one day for like eight hundred dollars from our taxes for like three years ago. I was like, what? And when do you ever get a thing from the IRS saying that they messed up? Like that never happens. Then we got a refund check from car insurance that we had like five years ago that we overpaid and the account was never closed out. And they sent us a random check. And I mean, it wasn’t like- it was like 40 or 50 bucks, but every time that would happen, I would say thank you, more please. And my husband was like what is going on? What are you doing? I was like, I don’t know. But it’s working. I was like, money’s just showing up. Just let me do what I need to do. But then I started getting into kind of a negative headspace last year and some things were going on in our personal life. And I started noticing I was like and it’s like- it’s not- like things started- we started getting these random things, like we owe more money on something or and it was like having this other reverse effect. And I was like, oh, crap. Like it’s because of like my negative, like I just had this like- and it was all warranted. We had a lot of just- it just felt like every month something was happening and I was like, oh my gosh. Like this is like I feel like we’re just constantly getting hit with something and just kind of was in this whole like just bleh kind of space for a while. And then just recently was like, I need to be able to keep- just keep going even when the stuff gets hard, like give yourself time. But then I need to keep up with my mental game because if I don’t like my anxiety will take over. And with my anxiety, it’s almost like- can create things in my life. Like, I can make things worse or instead of starting to visualize things going better and things being the way I want them to, I’ll start having visualizations of something else is happening. Something else is going to happen. Well, what if this happens and what if that happens? And then I start worrying about something that hasn’t even happened, then the next thing you know, I’m like up to here and I feel like I’m going to have a panic attack. And so for me personally, it works for me. And my husband said to me, he’s like, I don’t know what you do and I don’t know if I believe it. But he’s like, if it’s- it’s working for you because he can see a difference. He’s like, when’s the last time you got up and did your meditation stuff? I’m like, it’s been a couple of weeks, maybe.

Lesley [01:08:09] He’s like, I can tell.

Katie [01:08:11] And I’m like, I know. He’s like, you just seem like you’re ready to snap at any second. I was like, I am. So for me it’s like finding your thing that works, that works for me. It’s not for everyone. But you can always, always spot the like the negative person from a mile away. And I’m always like, just stay away from them because, like, I’ve done a lot to get where I am and I don’t need that. So for me, though, not going into the office has been good for that because you don’t get sucked into that kind of Debbie Downer mode.

Lesley [01:08:45] That makes sense and I mean, I think that that- the- it comes down to something that’s that simple really is if you think positively, more positive things will happen to you. And I think that people kind of do think it’s like that, like hippie dippy kind of stuff. But I think it’s because of that book that came out, that The Secret thing.

Katie [01:09:05] Yeah, oh yeah, I- I neglected doing- Like, I’m not reading that. My husband’s cousin gave me that book when I was in college and I was like, what the heck is he smoking? And I was like, he’s crazy. I still have it. I still haven’t read it. But I listened to the Audible or the audio book or whatever. And I was like I don’t know if this is real or not, but it doesn’t hurt to try, and that’s how I started, was listening to The Secret. And it is- it’s a little strange, but, you know, you’re like. If I have a couple of minutes out of my day, why not try it? And for me, I was like, wow, OK, this is this is a thing. And I- and I’ve gotten more into it where I don’t want to go way too into it. But there’s just so many things that you can do where I just think if you can try to catch yourself doing the negative things and just start there, just catching yourself, saying like, oh my gosh, like, I can’t believe she quit her job and she’s got this great online business and she was able to quit her job. That was one of my things. Like, I had a girl I worked with, quit her job, quit the job that we worked at when she had an online business. And I was like, oh, yeah, we’ll see how long this lasts. She’ll be- she’ll be back, like begging for her job. And, like, that’s so nasty. Like no. Like when you see that kind of stuff, you should celebrate them. There’s- there’s plenty of abundance for everyone. There’s no shortage of money in this world. Like everyone can have a piece of it. Like just, if you can celebrate more than you’re kind of pulling, then I think you’re going to go in the right direction.

Lesley [01:10:49] Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, it’s- it’s just that little shift just thinking more positively.

Katie [01:10:56] And it’s just good for your mental health. Like even if you don’t get a random check in the mail or your business doesn’t take off, it just- it will put you in a better headspace to to just live your your days differently. That- that- that in itself is worth it to me.

Lesley [01:11:11] Yeah. I think that’s just like an important aspect of just the whole self care thing. Self care is very much a mental health thing and just keeping your balance, it will make a huge difference.

Katie [01:11:23] I know. And self care is like a buzzword anymore, but it’s so true. You can’t burn the candle at both ends without taking care of yourself. At some point you’re just going to fizzle out.

Lesley [01:11:34] Yeah. So and if you let it go too long, it’s going to- the worse it’s going to get.

Katie [01:11:38] Yeah, and it’s hard to dig yourself out of it. Like, how do we get back out of this now? Because now I’m in the hole and I don’t know what to do. At some point you’re like, I don’t know how to get out of here. Like this is- we- we’ve gone too far.

Lesley [01:11:51] Exactly. Speaking of a more positive way of thinking, what’s one of your favorite memories from school?

Katie [01:11:59] From college or university?

Lesley [01:12:01] It doesn’t matter whatever, whatever, whatever jumps out at you.

Katie [01:12:05] From school, I don’t know. I feel like college. I didn’t have that like university kind of- I mean, I guess like playing volleyball I had a lot of fun memories. But as far as like actual college university experience, I didn’t have that whole like you go off to college and you party. Like I lived at home and I went to school and I was very much more like, I just want to graduate. So I didn’t get those, like, college experiences. I mean, I still had fun, but I mostly went to the university about 15 minutes away and partied at their campus. But as far as, like, fun memories, I don’t know. I feel like all of high school was a good fun memory, but yeah, for for school memories, the best one, I don’t know. Well, that’s a tough question. I don’t know. I feel like graduation from college was my best memory, just like walking across the stage and being like I did this. And because I have three siblings and I was- I’m the third and I was the first one to graduate because my other siblings were just like would get like a couple of years in and were like, no this this isn’t for me and kind of like fizzled out. So for me, that was like my- I was like, yes, I graduated college and I was like, like, let’s do this. And then I was like, oh my gosh, I have to do something with my life. What do we do?

Lesley [01:13:35] That’s a good memory though.

Katie [01:13:35] Yeah, I mean, I just think like graduating and like being like able to- and I graduated magna cum laude because I friggin killed myself over my grades. So like for me that was like a big deal. And then I kid you not, my job I got right out of college. I was an intern in H.R. and I was like, you know, I basically was like scanning papers the entire internship. But then once I got hired on full time, I was working in the recruiting part and I loved it so much. But they would have me scrub resumes and was basically just like, you know, eliminate people that have no chance. And I’m like, well, what are we looking for? And they’re like, honestly, just looking at they graduated. And the first thing I thought of was what my mom said, like, just graduate. Nobody cares what your GPA is. And I was like, what about like what their GPA is? And they were like no, we don’t care about that. I was like, oh, my mom was right. And like, that’s all I could hear was my mom being like, just graduate, your GPA doesn’t matter. And I was like, man, she was right again. But yeah, that- that was like I was so excited that I got that GPA and I graduated. I was like I graduated. Because like so many of my friends too were just like dropping out left and right just because it was like, I don’t know what I want to do and am I wasting my time. And this is so much money. And so I was just like pumped to be done. Honestly, I was ready to I’m like, I want to work. I want to work. I want to work. And then I started working and I was like, oh, this isn’t that fun.

Lesley [01:15:07] Yeah.

Katie [01:15:08] This isn’t what I thought it was. Can I go back?

Lesley [01:15:10] I know. I think about that all the time. I’m like, man, I wish I knew how good I had it when I was in university. And I was just like hanging out with my friends, doing my work and like, I really wish I appreciated that more.

Katie [01:15:24] I know. I think back on and I’m like, I would go back to, like before college. I would be like ten years old if I could go back because, like, you had no responsibility. You were just like playing. You just- like your parents made you food like you had nothing to do. That was- that was where it was at. It was before middle school, before you became awkward. Like, that’s the age right there. That’s one that I want. I don’t want to go back to college because that’s like all the dating and guys and all that stuff like that. I go back to like ten, back on the playground.

Lesley [01:15:55] You can’t- you can’t get your heart broken when you’re ten.

Katie [01:15:58] No, like who cares. That kid picks his nose anyway.

Lesley [01:16:01] He has cooties.

Katie [01:16:05] Yeah. Gross. I don’t like boys anyway.

Lesley [01:16:10] While we’re on that topic, actually one of the questions that we ask everyone on our podcast is if you could go back and talk to your fifteen year old self or your teenage self, what advice would you give or what would you say to yourself?

Katie [01:16:24] Oh man. Fifteen. Oh. Boys don’t matter, girls, whatever you’re into, who cares? Stay away from them. I know. I feel like my mom did tell me that she’s like, who cares what your boyfriend’s doing, what school is going to? And I was like, I don’t, but I did. But I would honestly tell myself, like all those kids that you think that are really cool at this moment in high school are probably going to turn out to be nothing. They’re going to be like working at a gas station or living at their parent’s house till they’re forty five. Don’t worry about what they’re doing. Be yourself and stay yourself. And do not change yourself for other people because I feel like so many teenagers, I did it myself, get tied up and who’s doing what. And this girl is popular on TikTok. I feel like that’s a thing now. And just trying to change yourself to be like someone else and just own your weird, whatever your weird is and just run with it. But also like I don’t know, I feel like no one’s really saying this, but except like Gary Vee, but like college isn’t for everyone and there’s nothing wrong with that. If you know what you want to do and you have a dream, frigging go for it and don’t like- I know parents say one thing, whatever, do what you want to do. And if you have that fire burning inside you to do something and you already know, like I would- I would have loved to know what I wanted to do at fifteen, but if you already have that, like run after it and don’t don’t apologize for it. Run after it. What you want to do and just keep your head down and- and and gun for it. I think, like you have so much time in front of you, do it. What’s the worst that’s going to happen? You’re going to fail at it. You can only fail if you quit. So that’s what I would tell myself. And I wouldn’t listen, but I mean, I wouldn’t listen. But it would have been good advice.

Lesley [01:18:21] Definitely, yeah. I think that’s one of those things like in high school that people keep drilling it into your head, that you need to go to university, you need to go to college, but you don’t need to if you don’t need to, like not every-

Katie [01:18:38] Yeah, my husband and I talk about it all the time. We’re on the same page as like if our kids came up to us and we’re like, we don’t want to go to school. We know what we want to do and I want to go do X, Y and Z and like, cool, like, that’s fine. But you can’t just not go to school and then not do anything.

Lesley [01:18:54] Right.

Katie [01:18:55] We’re not going to do that. But if you have an idea of something that you want to try and it requires not going to school like, I don’t know that- I’m not sure of how much- I don’t know. The whole college university thing I feel like in the future is going to change drastically. But we’ll see.

Lesley [01:19:13] Yeah, I, I kind of agree with you there. It’ll be interesting to see how that turns out.

Katie [01:19:18] Where it ends up.

Lesley [01:19:19] Yeah. Because I think a lot of people are kind of starting to get into that realization that like, OK, college, university is really expensive and that like the more-.

Katie [01:19:28] You don’t need it for a lot of the jobs, like engineers, doctors, nurses, anesthesiologists, like those type of jobs, yes. You need a degree. You need that. You need to go get trained. But for what I like, for what I ended up doing, I don’t need it. It might have been harder to get into the door, but I, I could have ended up in the same spot just through like a couple of certifications cost a couple hundred bucks.

Lesley [01:19:52] Yeah. A lot of the time it’s that life experience that is even more valuable sometimes.

Katie [01:19:57] Oh yeah. Yeah. That’s one of the things I wish I would have done in school, is get an internship while in college.

Lesley [01:20:05] Right.

Katie [01:20:07] I was like, I need to make money, I need to make money and internships aren’t paid. And it turns out some of them are. Yeah, I wish I would have done that. I had no idea. I thought they were all like, you don’t get paid. So I was like, I can’t do that. I need to make money.

Lesley [01:20:20] Yeah. I did the same thing.

Katie [01:20:21] I wish- I wish I would have done like my sophomore year. Just start looking at them and do anything. Just get the experience because you think you want to do- you know, you want to be in IT and then you start doing an internship and you’re like this isn’t it for me. I need to do I need to do something else. And then the internship is giving you that experience on your resume. So you’re already set up. So.

Lesley [01:20:42] Yeah, I agree. I mean, I did that. I did. I’ve done a couple of unpaid internships myself and like kind of dreaded it like, oh, I’m doing all this work and I’m not even getting paid for it. And then like looking later and seeing that there was a different paid internship, I could have done that if I had just looked more and not just like grabbed the one thing I found.

Katie [01:21:03] You gotta be more particular.

Lesley [01:21:05] I mean, it was still good experience, but.

Katie [01:21:08] Oh, yeah.

Lesley [01:21:09] It was free. I mean, my next question was, what’s your favorite social media platform? And I feel like we already pretty much talked about that.

Katie [01:21:16] Yeah. I mean, real quick, I love TikTok, but I also love Instagram and just kind of depends on the day. But I love TikTok to get ideas, but I like Instagram. It just feels more stable than TikTok as far as like sticking around. I think you should have both regardless. And I hate Facebook. So, yeah, just like I hate Facebook, it’s just been a- it’s I, I don’t know.

Lesley [01:21:40] It’s kind of old.

Katie [01:21:41] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lesley [01:21:44] Yeah. Well is there anything else that you kind of wanted to say to our audience and then we can wrap up?

Katie [01:21:51] No, I feel like I already said it, but I saw one of your questions was like your favorite motivational quote and I kind of already touched on it. But this is something that I currently love and I use every day. And I, like I said, touched on it earlier. But my favorite thing is feel the fear and do it anyway. So a lot of things I’ve learned is your brain is actually set up to protect you from a lot of things, and the scary things, your brain is going to try to talk you out of it. Right? Feel the fear and then do it anyway. So whatever that fear is, I’m not saying go jump off a cliff, but like, if you’re scared of starting something like feel that fear, embrace it and do it anyway. Success, loves speed. So just make a mess, clean it up later, figure it out as you go and do the hard things.

Lesley [01:22:41] I think that’s perfect. That’s a perfect way to leave things off. So I just want to thank you for taking time out of your day to talk to us and to share so many insights. I think it’s going to be a really great podcast. So.

Katie [01:22:53] All right. Thank you for your time.

Lesley [01:22:55] No problem. I’ll keep you posted as to when we do the next steps.

Katie [01:22:59] OK, thank you so much.

Lesley [01:23:02] Bye. Thanks.